MCGUIRE: You haven’t been able to convince Spaniards of the justice of going to war against Saddam Hussein. Why?
AZNAR: People don’t want war. If you ask people whether they’re for war or for peace, it’s a question that doesn’t make sense.
But Spaniards were more supportive of the war in Kosovo, the war in Afghanistan. Why is there so much more resistance now?
I think people perceive the risks differently this time. But the risks are there. Weapons of mass destruction are a risk.
And you think the risks are greater now than, say, when you came to office in 1996?
Yes, and what happened on September 11, 2001, demonstrated that. Were the victims at the Twin Towers aware of the threat? Were the victims in Bali aware of what could happen? If terrorism and weapons of mass destruction are ever brought together–which is the great threat of Iraq–I sincerely don’t want to be living in a future that is on its knees, powerless, before terrorists. We have a responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen. I would never forgive myself for doing nothing. Spain knows what terrorism is and what it means to fight terrorism.
France and Germany know terrorism, too. Why do Gerhard Schroder and Jacques Chirac take such a different approach to Iraq from your own?
Different countries have different motivations, different interests and different political situations. These are to be respected. But we must not allow the outcome of this crisis to be a divided Security Council or a divided NATO or a divided European Union. If Europe’s transatlantic relationship with the United States were ruptured, that would be a gift to Saddam Hussein.
Isn’t part of the problem the fact that many Europeans are uncomfortable with the United States as a superpower “bully” and with George W. Bush himself, whom they see as a trigger-happy cowboy?
If you’re asking if images matter, I think they do. Europe has a kind of intellectual superiority complex. It doesn’t value American presidents very highly. If they’re Republican presidents, they’re valued less. If they’re Republican and Texan, they’re valued even less. But let’s look at things as they really are. President Bush is working with the U.N. He’s totally committed to whatever resolution comes out of the Security Council.
You talk to him often. He’s still committed?
Completely.
Secretary of State Colin Powell’s measured diplomacy pleases many Europeans. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s sometimes-brusque commentaries rankle them. You’ve said you would like to hear more Powell and less Rumsfeld. What did you mean?
What I meant was, first, that we all need to work within the framework of the U.N. and, second, that while Defense ministers have a lot of important things to do, so do diplomats.
Were you not surprised by President Chirac’s strong criticism of Bulgaria and Romania for siding with the United States on Iraq, and his implicit threat that their stance on the war could hurt their chances of joining the European Union?
Everyone has a right to express his opinion. [Long pause] Including Bulgaria and Romania.
You’ve said that Spain deserves to “play in the first division.” Does that help to explain the prominent role that Spain has played on Iraq?
Spain is a country in ascendance. I don’t want my country to be standing on the sidelines of history.
But in the process, you’re taking great political risks, aren’t you?
The Spanish people did not elect me to be at the head of a street demonstration. They elected me to guarantee their security. I’m perfectly aware of the fact that I’m paying a price for doing what I’m doing, but I’m also perfectly aware of the fact that the Spanish people know that my government is capable of assuming this responsibility. Next year I expect to present a balance of accounts that Spaniards will judge favorably. And I expect to get a message from many citizens saying, “We can trust you.”
